Registration in the Computer Age

[KJ4OGD]

I don't suppose this post is really going anywhere, but there doesn't seem to be anyone to complain to so dissatisfaction tends to find its way onto forums, like this.

D-STAR bills itself as a futuristic, or at least progressive system.  This is, of course, very appealing to a techno-geek such as myself. So this drove my choice of radios and I ran out and registered immediately to get on the system.  I thought I must have done something terribly wrong trying to register.  I sent email to everyone I could find associated with registration, all of which went unanswered.  Now I have found this forum.  I do not expect to receive any help here.  But since I can't talk on D-STAR I have time to kill complaining on-line. 

Apparently "hopelessly broken" is in fact the accepted model for new user registration.  To say this is off-putting would be a fantastic understatement.  I have been waiting longer for D-STAR registration than I waited for the FCC to issue my license. One cannot help but notice the irony in that. 

Getting set up with EchoLink was a multi-step process.  But each step was clearly explained and was completed much faster than promised on their very professional site.  Leveraging ARRL (X.509 I assume) certificates was a brilliant approach.  A couple steps promised "within 24 hours" and were in fact within 10 seconds.  Overall it was a very satisfying experience and worked flawlessly.

D-STAR in contrast lets you enter your information and then...   Well I'm not sure what happens next, thus far there isn't a "next".  All I've seen of "next" is "registration not approved".  Which sounds like an error, but apparently just means it has not been actioned yet. (Yes, I used actioned in a sentence.)

I read on here that "you should support your local repeater".  At this point I'd register with Japan, UK, OR ANYWHERE ELSE if they could manage to push "Accept" on the no doubt quite impressive queue of registrations.  Apparently from what I read here the entire process is completely manual and will proceed at some undefined point affectionately known as "later".  Regardless should that time ever actually arrive, no feedback will be provided.  It might happen today or in 6 months or I suppose never.  The suggestion is: just keep trying.  Pardon me for saying but that really is not acceptable.

As I said this is an absolutely HORRIBLE first post.  It's not even a good anytime post.  And I do hate sounding like such a whiner.  But really guys, this system is really armature; not as in hobby radio, as in very poorly designed and implemented.  Sorry but sometimes that's just the way it is. 

[N5MIJ]

First, I must agree with you - your chances of getting any help are slim.  That's not a result of nobody caring - it's a result of you not providing ANY information for us to work with.

On the other hand, most of us have found that the D-STAR community is unusually friendly & helpful, if you'll give them a chance, and remember that this is a commercial product.  We have no control at all over its functionality, and everything we do is on a volunteer basis.

If you'll provide just a little information (like where you're trying to register), I'm sure we can help.  I'll commit to that myself.

73,
Jim

[KJ4OGD]

Thank you for your quick reply.  I am not at all surprised that the community is "friendly & helpful".  I did not mean to imply that it was not.  I strongly suspect that once one gets registered and is part of the community the pain of registration quickly fades.  And of course my experience may not be at all typical.  But reading here and elsewhere my experience is also not unique.

A much better post would have been a lot more time on the positives of EchoLink and how that model should be adopted and a lot less time on how the current D-STAR model sucks. 

I am confused by your statement that D-STAR is a commercial product.  I have read the account of its closed codec and I can see why people would be quite concerned about that.  Sadly I've never done any codec programming so I probably can't help fix it but I agree doing away with AMBE is highly desirable.  Other than the codec though, I don't understand the commercial aspect.  Have I missed something important?

As someone in IT, I am familiar with the horrors of software patent / copyright.  My classic example is that if today's laws were in place 100 years ago, the Wright brothers would have patented heavier than air flight and the government would have forbade anyone else to ever build an airplane.

Reading the history, it isn't clear to me if we are talking about a patent or a copyright and that does make a difference.  But AMBE is an evolution of MBE first developed by MIT in 1987.  This means that MBE if patented, it probably isn't, is about to expire.  All this makes me wonder if a much quicker and easier solution, rather than trying to create Speex 2.0 would be to create MBE 2.0. In OSS words, fork MBE.  And now with D-STAR in the UK, the EU has MUCH better laws on this sort of thing than the US.  Anyhow, just a thought, but it seems interesting to me.

Back on the original subject, I do have enough taste to not drag my repeater owner through the mud.  I probably already did too much of that.  It may turn out the poor man had a heart attack and hasn't been able to get next to his rig with the pace maker.  I of course hope not, but that's the sort of thing that happens to smart asses like me who whine about instant gratification. (Classic example: it's funny when the guy slips on a banana peal.  Then you find out he broke his leg and you feel really horrible)  I'll PM you with the details.

73 indeed

Terry

[n5ebw]

First of all, WELCOME.  We're glad to have you here and hopefully your initial "rough start" will improve.

Thank you for your quick reply.  I am not at all surprised that the community is "friendly & helpful".  I did not mean to imply that it was not.  I strongly suspect that once one gets registered and is part of the community the pain of registration quickly fades.  And of course my experience may not be at all typical.  But reading here and elsewhere my experience is also not unique.

You are quite correct.  Every repeater system is run as it's own entity.  Because of this, each system has it's own registration procedures and volunteers (just like anything else in radio).  This also translates to how tightly run the registration process is.  As in your example below, a poor old man could have had a heart attack and died, but more likely, the system volunteers haven't checked the registration queue.  Timelines for approval are as varied as the day is long.  We do keep a database of the repeater owners, and are more than willing to help resolve an issue, but, that's about as far as we can take it here.

I am confused by your statement that D-STAR is a commercial product.  I have read the account of its closed codec and I can see why people would be quite concerned about that.  Sadly I've never done any codec programming so I probably can't help fix it but I agree doing away with AMBE is highly desirable.  Other than the codec though, I don't understand the commercial aspect.  Have I missed something important?

What Jim meant by it being a "commercial product" is that the actual gateway software installed is an Icom product, just like the stacks.  The gateway owners are limited to the updates Icom provides.

As someone in IT, I am familiar with the horrors of software patent / copyright.  My classic example is that if today's laws were in place 100 years ago, the Wright brothers would have patented heavier than air flight and the government would have forbade anyone else to ever build an airplane.  Reading the history, it isn't clear to me if we are talking about a patent or a copyright and that does make a difference.  But AMBE is an evolution of MBE first developed by MIT in 1987.  This means that MBE if patented, it probably isn't, is about to expire.  All this makes me wonder if a much quicker and easier solution, rather than trying to create Speex 2.0 would be to create MBE 2.0. In OSS words, fork MBE.  And now with D-STAR in the UK, the EU has MUCH better laws on this sort of thing than the US.  Anyhow, just a thought, but it seems interesting to me.

It's not really an argument of the codec, just that no one has taken the initiative to duplicate the gateway software.  And rightfully so, if I created something with the same functionality, only easier to use, I wouldn't have time to support it.  It's all fine and good to want to do something, but it's quite another to actually do it.

Back on the original subject, I do have enough taste to not drag my repeater owner through the mud.  I probably already did too much of that.  It may turn out the poor man had a heart attack and hasn't been able to get next to his rig with the pace maker.  I of course hope not, but that's the sort of thing that happens to smart asses like me who whine about instant gratification. (Classic example: it's funny when the guy slips on a banana peal.  Then you find out he broke his leg and you feel really horrible)  I'll PM you with the details.

Like Jim said, these things can be done in private.  You just have to ask.

[KB3TCB]

My Experience with Registration was just as frustrating. After contacting several people I found realted to D-Star, I finally got an email notifying me I was registered (magic). This process took 4 days.
I then ran DVTools on Windows. But my PTT button is gray, Lets hope it does not take 4 days to solve this problem.
I assume that I am not doing things as required, since other are using D-Star, but I have been using computers for over 40 years and can't for my life figure out how to register and use D-star.
I am a programmer and will gladly work to solve this problem, both fixing a 'universal registration web site' and making a windows version of DVTools that is user friendly and powerful.
Just let me know who to talk to.

[KB3TCB]

I emailed Josh for help, Josh got back with his telephone number , I called Josh and helped me.
Josh let me know that I needed to finish registering, step 2.
Now I had been to step 2 (I did not know it at the time.)
But the text read that I should fill in the list if I had 'multiple' units and since I only had one, I did
not fill it in.
Josh  told me that I MUST always fill in at least one. I filled it in (with a space for the initial).
The text on that page needs to be changed to say that one must be filled in and
that a space is to be used, also that the callsign is to be in lower case.

[kg5vk]

I need some help registering a friend's call if that is possible
I plan on surprising him with a dstar radio !

his Call KR5D
name Tom
his local repaeter in Allen Texas K5PRK has no website listed for registration !

My call KG5VK
home repater W5SHV  already registered

any help please contact me direct at kg5vk at arrl dot net
tnx & 73
steve